Wednesday, September 1, 2010

Who's the coolest player? A post about ranking

Did you know that shamans are the coolest players, while hardly anyone would admit playing a hunter, since they're so hopelessly uncool?

I didn't until recently, when I read a blog post by Sven at Fail PUG! He has come to this astonishing conclusion by combining two different sources of data. To be honest I don't think this "investigation" would hold evidence in any courtroom, but regardless of this, it's fun to look at (as long as you manage to forget that you're actually playing a mage, a class which is almost as much of a loser as hunters. Doh!)

Raiders looking down on others?
Sven is not the only one who has talked about ranking among players lately. Yesterday Copra at BullCopra wrote a post where he claimed that raiders look down on people who play the game for lore, world or quests and stories, and asked why they did this.

In my answer to Copra I questioned if he really was right about this. Do raiders look down on non-raiders? Or isn't it just a cliché, something that you might expect raiders to do?

Speaking for myself, the thought has never ever crossed my mind to rank players in that way. Certainly not on the base of which class they play. I don't even jokingly bash on warlocks, as mages are expected to do. That says something, doesn't it?

And I don't evaluate players on the basis of how they spend their time online either.

Raiders aren't superior to PvP players or Roleplayers or Altoholics or AH junkies in my world. We have chosen to focus on different aspects in the game, and overtime we'll - in the best of worlds - get better at what we're doing.

A dedicated raider who never has paid a second of attention to make up a background story for his character, is probably not as good at improvising an in-character encounter as a die-hard roleplayer would be. And the reversed: I don't expect someone who spends the entire nights roleplaying in the streets of Stormwind to shine the first time he enters a raid. Neither deserves to be frowned upon and despised by the other.

If there is any kind of ranking among players, it would be within the category of players. Raiding guilds tend to pay a glance to the realm ranking lists to see how they're doing progressionwise compared to other guilds. Rohan at Blessing of Kings did a classic post on this last year, where he classified guilds in different levels, from "royalties" to "proletariats", and it was easy to recongize yourself in it.

But the idea to rank players who are engaging into different aspects of the game on the pure basis on what they're doing, is just stupid to me.

Players I admire
I admire players who are talented and put their heart and a big effort into becoming skilled within their chosen area regardless of what they're doing. Players who show superior skill in PvE or PvP, rocking the charts without forgetting to be a good team player at the same time.

I admire players who challenge themselves and are making more out of their gameplay than you could expect. People who don't let physical or psychological handicaps stop them from trying to reach their full potential. Players who play onehanded, players who follow their hearts, ignoring stereotyped expectations on what they "should" do. Players who stand up as leaders even if they're naturally shy and feel terrified as they do so.

I admire players who leave the beaten paths, who are creative and make use of the sandbox possibilities WoW still offer, not just mindlessly using the premade theme park.

If you're a raider or not is a non issue. It's not about what you're doing. It's about who you are.

Players I look down on
What about the opposite then? Are there any kind of players that I look down on?

Well, again it's not about preferred activity. And actually not about skill. Even if I can admire a skilled roleplayer or raider or PvPer or someone with impressive achievements and titles, this doesn't mean that I look down on those who are low performing. Because you never know. They guy who does 2k dps in your LFG 5-man may be excellent in another area. Life has learned me to not be too quick when I judge other people.

Generally I don't walk around despising people, but if you insist on it, I would probably put homophobics, rasists and sexists lower than any. You can be as skilled or high ranked PvPer/raider as you like, if you're a jerk and an idiot, my admiration for you is zero.

That's how Larísa ranks players. But what about you? Is there any class or any kind of player that you think is a bit cooler than the rest of us? Who would you put at the bottom of your ranking list?

I'm curious to hear about it! And don't shy away from sounding like an elitist jerk if that's what you are. I want the truth, ladies and gentlemen, the truth!


Carson 63000 said...

Raiders look down on non-raiders as horrible players. Non-raiders look down on raiders as no-lifers. Roleplayers look down on everyone else for not understanding that this is an MMORPG. Everyone else looks down on them right back for being colossal nerds. It's the cycle of life!

Klepsacovic said...

I'm a raider and I don't look down on people who play for story or exploration, because I do those things too. Raiding isn't my favorite activity, but I don't think there's anything wrong with it, or anything else.

As for the coolest class, I can't really see any class cooler than a shaman. That's actually why they destroyed any hope of shaman tanking with LK; they didn't want to risk a massive imbalance of Cool.

Warlocks are pretty cool too. I can't say rogues, warriors, or hunters are particularly cool. Druids might be cool if they weren't 50% bad apples, which clearly fell from bad trees, perhaps dislodged by bad owls fleeing from bad bears and cats.

Paladins just don't get no respect. Respect the dress, dammit!

Syl said...

Even if I have raided more-and less hardcore for most of my wow time, I never had any issues with more casual players, non-raiders, rp-ers, whatever. why would I? there's so many ways to have fun in wow and I am currently starting to view new ways to play the game myself. looking down on people that play less is just as silly as hating players that play more - we all play wow because we love it, can we just agree on that?

That said the players i have always looked down on are those that make the game's experience worse for everyone around them: lootwhores, BG saboteurs, guild leeches, trolls, tradespammers, dramaqueens, troublemakers, real-life compensators, slackers and liabilities that try to freeload on guilds they clearly don't belong in. i'm talking from a raidguild's perspective here obviously, so I truly dislike players that won't put effort into getting better and just let everyone else carry them and their incompetence.

I also deeply dislike emotional leeches that abuse everyone around them as a shrink. same goes for that very special sort of 'machinator' who enters guilds with his/her very own agenda, list of lies and intrigues. I don't know what sort of deep personality disorder makes some people act like this in a game, but I've seen it twice so far and it's both despicable and pitiful.

As for your -isms Larísa: those of course, always - but then they go for people in general and not just players, right.

There I've said it all now, hah! (I think.)

Redbeard said...

In my answer to Copra I questioned if he really was right about this. Do raiders look down on non-raiders? Or isn't it just a cliché, something that you might expect raiders to do?

To answer this question, Larisa, I'll provide you an anecdote from while I was getting in some WoW over lunch.

I was in the Ghostlands, hunting the elusive larva on my main for the Pest Control achievement. The Amani Tombs, where I was currently bopping rats and hoping a larva would spawn instead, was pretty crowded. At least three L14-16 mages were working on separate quests there. Remembering how little fun it was trying to do this on regular gear at that level, I helped out a bit by giving them a bit of healing; a Holy Light here, a Flash of Light there.

One of the mages asked me what I was doing. I could tell from his heirloom gear he was an alt, so I told him I was working on Pest Control. He then proceeded to tell me how I was wasting my time and how I ought to be raiding instead, working on upping my gear. I told him that I don't raid, so I don't need to worry about more gear than what I've got. He was flabbergasted that I'd waste a perfectly good toon like this.

Sure, I don't get that sort of thing every day, but that Loremaster title I've got seems to attract it's share of people who want to tell me how to play the game correctly. Before I reached Loremaster, I didn't have as many people trying to tell me how to play the game. Sure, it was there, especially after they'd ask if I was trying for Loremaster, but since I finished the achievement this sort of thing happens once every week.

Anonymous said...

I personally have been playing WoW since after WotLK was released. That being said I can tell you that once I hit 80 I pretty much had no idea what I was doing when I got there. If you don't have someone guiding you along the whole way then once you hit level cap you have to rely on people to help you or information on the internet to maximize your abilities.

From what I have learned about the hunter class being looked down upon it is pretty ridiculous. I have been leveling a warlock lately. Tell me what is the difference between leveling up a hunter and a warlock? You have all of the pets to do your "tanking" for you. Just like a hunter.

In my opinion there is no class that is "cooler" or "lamer" than the other. If you take the time to research and understand the game you can maximize your class to do what it was designed to do...

Oh, Except for Druids because we can be Heals, Tanks, RDPS and MDPS! :P Druid FTW!

Charlie said...

My favorite types of players are the ones that are willing to learn and improve, and give and/or take constructive criticism well.

My least favorite types of players are the trade chat trolls, the anal/legendary/in bed/your mom players, people that just generally have a poor attitude or are flat-out jerks. Loot whores are terrible. They cause all sorts of drama over loot, it's ridiculous. Players that enter the top tier of raiding with far below optimal gear. Missing gems/enchants, wrong stats for their class/role, etc. I also dislike the type of players that don't read. I'll give you an example: Our guild is looking for a couple of PUGs for the weekly ICC 25-man. The raid leader advertises that we need one raid healer and one ranged dps. The raid leader starts receiving whispers from people asking "do you need a melee dps?" /facepalm

There's no particular "class" of player I prefer, though it's hard to argue with the idea that "you've seen one DK, you've seen them all".

Perdissa said...

I never saw any class as being particularly cool, but I guess I can empathize with hunters being uncool.


In light of DK data missing, however, I would postulate that DKs rank somewhat lower than hunters.

I have a theory that the easier the class is to level, the more clueless lvl 80s there will be from that class. Hunters are very easy to level. DKs are actually even easier.

Runningboar said...

You have obviously never played with your 16-year-old son; or more particularly tried to PvP with your 16-year-old son :-)

When you do this you very quickly learn that there is a definite, and utterly ruthless, player ranking, and that you, personally, are a total loser. In all possible aspects, currrent or future, of the game.

I believe that getting the Loremaster title puts you automatically on the lowest rung of the coolness ladder.

Magma said...

I tend to look down on deathknight's, regardless of if they are good. Blood elves as well. I never mention it to anyone, or make any kind of situation out of it, but I don't like them.

sscougall said...

Have you ever seen that geek hierarchy?

Anyway, I think that, for some players, there is an 'awesomeness hierarchy' that goes roughly like this:

1. Me, because I'm TEH AWEXOME!!!
2. Players like me.
3. Players kinda like me who could be redeemable and play the game the right way if i could be bothered.
4. Players who are nothing like me, and completely waste their time not playing the game the right way, those stupid losers.
5. No-life players who completely waste their time doing pointless and useless stuff.

spinksville said...

Rohan's post about his idea of class based raid society really wound me up :)

I don't buy that we all still worship the server elites who are completing LK hard modes (or whatever). That was true in vanilla, maybe still in TBC, but I don't think people really care that much. My casual group is server #4 at the moment just from attrition, but I'm not seeing the server aristocracy thing.

I'm sure that hard core raiders might classify people like that, or people who remember TBC and still like the idea of that class based server society, but when a group like mine is tackling hard modes in ICC 25 ... it doesn't mean anything any more. Does anyone really care if guild X killed heroic mode Y during the 20% buff or the 10% buff? I think only a very very small minority of people think like that.

spinksville said...

Also, any chart that shows paladins as cooler than warriors is objectively wrong :)

Rhii said...

I agree with Syl, the only players I really look down on are the ones who derive their fun in the game from ruining the enjoyment of others.

Corpse campers and ninjas are the major offenders. What kind of small person do you have to be to do those things for fun?

Jen said...

In game I dislike the same people I dislike out of game: the inconsiderate ones. The ones who can't imagine that there's a person behind the toon (just how in real life some people think customer support is there to be abused). They come in many varieties and I think they were all mentioned here.

Talking about specifics, I'll repeat what I already commented on Copra's site (prompted by something he said): there is no such thing as "I can't get good enough gear for raids, because I need to go to raid to get it". That's called laziness. Different priorities. Lack of knowledge. But it's *not* impossible. It irks me when someone is applying to a raiding guild and has no clue whatsoever. It's... what is this I don't even. You can't say "well I'm wearing T9 because nothing better dropped" (quote from someone who wanted to apply). Er, ever heard of emblems or crafted gear? That shows that the player doesn't care enough, and if you're running a progression guild, you don't want people like that.

Is it elitist? Maybe, but I also think it's useful. It's up to the individual player to decide where his/her priorities are. I recently got into an argument with a guildie because I don't want to invest 150+ emblems in offspec tier gear (I would use my offspec just for one fight), and he can't understand how I don't want my character to be "perfect". For me it's simply something I'm not willing to do, which is why I'm this particular guild and not another, more hardcore one. I know my limits and I'm happy where I am. The applicant I mentioned earlier decided that his social guild wasn't so bad after all.

So do I look down on him? Yes, but not because of his gear - because of his lack of documentation/common sense. That's a "me" thing though and I know some people are just more impulsive; I like to look at every way something can go wrong and if possible avoid them before they can happen.

Larísa said...

@Carson 63000: Oh dear. I’ve obviously missed out a huge chunk of the game. So… that’s what people are spending their subscription fees and precious time on? To walk around looking down on others, feeling good about themselves? What’s the point? I’m clueless.

: I’m a little bit astonished at the perceived coolness of shamans. What’s so cool about dropping stuff all around you and run around wagging your tail? I can totally understand the coolness of druids though. If I’d rolled a druid the first thing I did when I started to play WoW, I honestly doubt I’d ever look at anything else. The shapeshifting and the crazy flexibility says it all. Rogues are clearly misunderstood and mistreated.

My rogue alt is actually the coolest looking character I have, but it doesn’t help. She doesn’t get any playtime at all these days. Stab-stab-stab-kick. ZZZZZ

@Syl: Oh… you’re extending the list of players to look down on and yeah, I can’t but agree, although I think I have more forbearance with incompetence than you have. What you think is lack of effort can actually just be a sign of cluelessness.

But you didn’t say anything about players to look up to? Are there any players in the game that you think are cool? Or are you seeing it all from the viewpoint of the top?;)

: What a story! I’m astonished tbh. And how rude! You’re helping them and all you get in return is bashing. I’ve never ever heard of anyone who look down on a Loremaster title before. I’m so far away from it that I won’t even bother trying, but I’m really impressed with players who have the commitment to go through with it. That takes passion and a bit of craziness.

: Yay, druids! They’re cool…. I can’t betray fellow mages saying they’re cooler than us, but yeah… they’re very, very close.

@Charlie: Actually I don’t think much of the trace chat trolls. I don’t really pay any attention to them. But if the conversation is getting racist/homophobic etc I might notice and yeah, then they’ll get my deep contempt.

: Hm… sad to say I must agree. When I’m pugging these days on my resto druid and I see a DK tank in the group, I cringe, thinking “this can get a tough run”. Judging them just by their class. That is in fact very un-cool of me. But yeah. I don’t particularly look up to them. Prejudiced? Unfair? Yes, very much so.

: The Loremaster titel puts you lowest on the coolness ladder? Really? I’m so out of touch with the rest of the players! Or at least the younger generation.

@Magma: Oh, another one with prejudices against DKs. And you don’t mention it either. Then we’re two about it. Prejudiced but at least we’ve got the senses to be ashamed about being it.

: Hehe, spot on!

: Actually I think you’re right. The general interest in the hierarchies among the raiding guilds has probably decreased overtime and not that many players know or care about which guild is currently The Awesome on their server.
: /comfort. Mages are even worse. Apparently hybrids are way cooler than pure classes for some reason.

@Rhii: Fortunate enough I don’t run into that kind of players very much. You hear about ninjas and corpse campers, but how often do you actually meet them?

@Jen: Well… yeah. Feeling sorry about yourself for not getting into ICC raids when you actually CAN make yourself more attractive on the market with a few simple measures isn’t very constructive. However I think it’s a little bit aside of this topic. Unless you really “look down” on such players?

As long as people respect each others choices and don’t try to use other players as vehicles to reach their own goals without giving anything in return, I think we should be able to go along side by side. Regardless of ambitions and ideals in the game. And without putting each other higher or lower on some imagined ranking list.

Kurnak said...

As several of you pointed out, we despise persons who play as jerks (ninjas, dramaqueens, racists, saboteurs, etc), not classes. It's stupid to consider a class worse than the rest, or how a person decides to spend the time in the game (unless they are in the jerk scumbag mentioned before).
But I must concede some classes still carry a stigma from the old days.
Hunters: class was very easy to play (send pet, autoattack). And even worst: all farmer bots were hunters, so this class is still seen with suspicion, thinking the person behind the character is half-idiot and can't play other classes that need more skill.
DKs: ah, the demographic explosion of DKs... they seemed like an infection, spreading everywhere. Combine that you'd get a "free" level 58 character with a hard to master class and you get a lot of clueless players running DKs everywhere. But even the amount of DKs went down back in the TBC days a lot of people consider that the person behind the char is some noob that has been powerleveled to 60 and now is playing a DK wthout understanding how the class works. I don't know about paladins in the Horde back then, but Alliance had a simmilar to DKs explosion of shamans and they never were stigmatized that way. And shaman is also a hard to master class.

Syl said...

@ Lar

haha good point! and no I have come across players I highly respect and look up to in my time - though that part is certainly considerably smaller than all the trolls out there!
To me the coolest players are the fun ones: the ones that make my day in guildchat and have me laughing or smiling in a party. nothing brings you together like shared humor.

Besides that I respect dedicated and skilled players that know what they're doing or try all they can to get there. I respect honest players. And players that take charge in BGs or instances or give a hand when you need them. I respect people that do something for the community (goes for you great bloggers too!). And I respect all my awesome longtime guildies, they rock! :)

jeffo said...

Carson stated it pretty well in his comment, I think.

That's not to say that everyone in the game feels that way, but as a general rule it seems to hold water. I'm surprised that this is something you haven't noticed before, to be honest.

As for the 'coolest' class: whatever you like to play the most!

Pangoria Fallstar said...

@Larisa: I'm still having trouble describing to people why shamans are so awesome. Each time it is with anecdotal evidence.

For example, when I was Enhancement, on the Isle of Queldanas, I saw warriors spend up to 12 seconds killing a mob. Where as, every time I'd run up to one, he'd die from my burst damage. So while I ran around destroying everything, the ONE mob was finally killed by the warrior.

Things like that would happen ALL the time.

As for totems, they made me feel like a swiss army knife. What with several gadgets and gizmos for whatever popped up. Maybe I was just better at totems than most people who started up a Shaman, but I loved my totems.

Utakata said...

Sometimes I wonder which of our *WoW lifestyle choices Blizz tends to focus on most. In Wrath, which IMO...was the best expansion, because they pretty much included everyone. And whether players liked or even admitted to it, they became part of the story of the Lich King. This made Wrath interesting, fun and inclusive. And everyone had a chance to advance in all their focus.

In Cat, Blizz will be focussing on guilds instead, with an *emphasis on the "more hardcore set," according to Tom Chilton, Lead Game Designer at a Gamescon interview recently. So those who will benefit and aquire the best skill are those in guilds that raid hardcore. Because the guild mechanics will reward them with better advantages and gear for cracking the top intances over everyone else. Same goes for PvP. And WoW will become a very exclusive club or epeens, leaving the rest of the WoW lifestyle choices behind in the dust...

...Guild Wars 2, with it's seemingly inclusive, immersive and dynamic environment is starting to look like game I wish jump to instead. Just saying...

*Note, my background: I should point out my focus tends to combination of casual progression (I like to see all content, including raids but do not consider myself a hardcore) and dynamic RP (I run concept characters instead of mini-maxers). Both which I'm told I do very well at. I pride myself on making "alternative" Fire Mage specs hit hard as Arcane, for example. And I am in non-progression established RP guild, but help out another 10 person raid guild which very much appreciate my presence.

So my WoW lifestyle currently will run in contradiction to Blizz's current vision for Cat, I'm afraid. And perhaps that's a sign for me to move on. :(

Jen said...

@Larisa: if they apply to a guild that's beyond their capabilities, yes, I do look down on them, especially if they act surprised. If they're hanging out in Dalaran? Couldn't care less. I also look down on people with wrong gear for their specs (the legendary DKs in spellpower plate), even though I was just as clueless when I started out. I'm a bad, bad person, but I try not to bitch at people at least... I just rant in guild chat.

The people I look up to? Progressed guilds. PvPers. People who can mouse turn properly. Theorycrafters. RPers, in a way (I'm not interested in RP, but it's fascinating how they can create characters with distinct personalities). Fast levelers. Anyone who does anything better than me :D

If you ask my boyfriend (moonkin since he started playing 3 years ago), the best class in the world is the druid. My main is a druid too (tree), and while I really, really enjoy playing her, I can't say it's the best, since all classes have something cool about them.

I do cringe when I see a low level DK tank. Lvl 80 ones are mostly OK, but before that it's hit and miss... mostly miss. (I leveled my druid a bit after Wrath was launched and I suffered through a lot of bad DK "tanks").

Redbeard said...


Yeah, it shocked me quite a bit as well. The other mages were happy for the help and wished me luck, but I'm still wondering what planet this other guy was from.

But like the other times I get hassled that I was wasting my time as Loremaster, I just shrug it off. People will be asshats, and you shouldn't let them tell you what to do.

Klepsacovic said...

A brief explanation of what makes shamans so cool.

Ratshag said...

This is makin' poor Fezziwhig the Goblin hunter cry. Poor little dude wants to be be cool, and now he's labeled uncool before he's even borned? That's sad.

Is there raiders what looks down on me 'cause I's 1/12 ICC? If so, that's they's problem. I been havin' me a great time the past two years bein' me - ain't nobody else I'd rather be.

SpiritusRex said...

All of you hatin' on us hunters just proves how cool we are and how jealous y'all are *sticks out tongue*

And, for you, young lady innkeeper, I swear to the Patron Saint of Hunters, if you bash on hunters one more time I'm gonna send my pet in after your pig-tails! She likes them, thinks they're a rope toy - go figure.

On a serious note, I quite frankly don't know which I dislike more, the people that tell others they suck or the people who are told that who actually believe it. This may come out wrong, but I think that I have equal disdain for both. I mean, seriously, are people now looking for validation of who they are through the lens of a video game. Please tell me not. And yet, some do and some more actually believe it.

Perhaps that's why I rolled a hunter. When the rest of the Azerothian poplulace is going all crazy talking about how I'm better than you, and how your mom is better than us both, and how Chuck Norris is better than us all - except Hogger, of course, for he is the hot poop on the fine china -and how the raiderz have uber leet skillz, and RP'ers are sissies and the questers are no lifers, blah, blah, blah, I can just chill out with my pet in some far reach of the universe and kill internet dragons without hearing a thing, except the soft thwack of my bow string and the low growl of my cat, Shadow. Let the rest of Azeroth destroy each other with their words and deeds. Shadow and I? We'll still be out here doing our thing out here in the lesser nether.

Although I am against rankings generally, as a nod to our fair innkeeper and her request as to who the coolest players are, to me it is rather simple:

There is hunters, there is everything else and then, way down at the bottom....yes, that tiny little black speck at the bottom of the garbage pile, feeding on all of the Azerothian leftovers that exists, there is mages. :p

*I hope I don't lose my seat near the fire after that one*

Gronthe said...

I've got toons of every class so that when I need to I can be cool and when I want to get away from the madness I can be a nerd.

Echoing many comments here, I look down on any one who seeks to injure another player (in deed or in word). I look up to people who lead with patience, who don't rush to judgement but who give others a chance to explain themselves, (and if unclear the first time are given the further chance to clarify things). I look up to anyone who logs in and has a good time no matter what they do.

I probably have more to say but won't. It gets exhausting being at the top, I need to rest my feet.

/, footrest

Sven said...

I think we need to distinguish here between cool players and cool characters.

I'd agree with most of the comments here about bad players being the real problem here, whether they be the "gogogo" merchants, drama queens or serial nija looters.

I was actually rather surprised that hunters came out so low on the class respect front nowadays. Pre-LK, my heart used to sink whenever I saw a hunter in the party, but the ones who didn't switch to DK seem to me to be highly skilled in general.

It's a real shame I couldn't find figures for the DK. They're an awesome class when played well, but the (relatively large) number of poor players who seem drawn to them means that I've observed a lot of stigma associated with the class. It would be interesting to see if that was true more broadly than my experience.

Tesh said...

Ranking... ranking...

Yeah, I'm going to go with putting jerks on the list. They come in all sizes and shapes. That's my judgment spectrum, then; the jerkiness-awesomeness scale. (Awesomeness here defined as kind, helpful and capable.)

Anything else I chalk up to playstyle, and as far as I'm concerned, to each their own.

Stumps said...

For me the answer is fairly simple (and I know Syl will nod when I say it =p): I am the world's biggest name snob. I look down on idiots who log into a fantasy universe, spend time creating an avatar and then name it Legolasx or Jakesulley or some other irritating movie-of-the-week name ripoff. I have a similar affliction when it comes to stupid guild names like etc.
I have no idea why it irritates me so much but it does and the fools should be banned. I'm not an RPer but it's a poor show when you can't immerse yourself for long enough to come up with a name that has some depth to it.
I also have no time for the "GOGOGO" breed in pugs. If they'd be so kind as to slow-roast themselves over a charred pit for 48 to 72 hours or until the message sinks in, I'd be very grateful.

As for who I admire or like to game with? essentially anyone who can log into a social game and understand that they are not the centre of the universe. Those who understand that there are other people around them and show some consideration and forethought for this.

Len said...

I don't look down on people who do something different to me in game per se... I admire more 'serious' raiders than me for their dedication, am secretly a bit jealous, but know that I couldn't cope with that kind of environment and wouldn't want to. I admire serious RP-ers and wish I had the time or energy to do more. I especially admire PVP-ers as I know full well I just don't have the skill or dedication to do it.

I suppose I 'look down' on people who come off as elitist or super-serious about WoW seeing it as a job. In my mind I'm thinking 'jeez get a life eh...' I also just don't GET people who spend all their time trying to make gold. I mean, out of everything to do in WoW the last thing I would possible choose to do is spend effort making piles of gold. That's not cool to me, it also falls into the 'jeez get a life' category.

When it comes down to it, whatever makes you happy I suppose! It's more individual personality types that bother me than what someone spends their time doing in the game.

Len said...

Oh, except as a mage (at heart even though I am an altoholic I will always be a mage) I do look down on warlocks as wannabes who can't do the difficult stuff on their own so force a pet into doing it for them ;)

But you know. That's just fact right?

Larísa said...

@Kurnak: To be honest (even if SpiritusRex may think differently ;)) I've never understood the contempt that I've heard for hunters. Oh well... yeah there was a time where there were a lot of bots around, that's true. (And how enjoyable wasn't it to screw it up for them, quickly ninja grabbing their targets!). But it never affected how I looked on hunters, possibly because I spent a couple of months hanging around with some crazy Norweigian hunters soon after I'd started to play the game. I think of hunters as goodhearted and fun, ever since.

@Syl: OFC! Adrenaline of Stormrage/EU players are in a class per se. It's so obvious that it doesn't need mentioning :)

@Jeffo: I've heard people saying that it is that way, but I've really not experienced it. Maybe I'm socializing with the wrong people in the game. (Or I should probably rather say: the right people.)

Fallstar: Oh... so what you're saying is that shammies are OP? As of swiss army knife that describes druids just as well... But wait, they were also in the top.

I've rolled a little troll shaman, think I got it to lvl 10 or a little above. To be honest I thought the quests to get the totems were way cooler than the totems as such. There's probably some good addon to handle it, but to me it was just annoying and complicated to try to change which one you had up.

@Utakata: This is actually the first time I hear anyone saying that Wrath was the best so far, and that Cataclysm might not be as good. While I DO share your enthusiasm for wrath, and never have understood all the whining over it - I think the world was beautiful and the quests rocked and a LOT was superior to TBC! - I'm not as worried about Cataclysm. Possibly because I'm in a guild of course, and wouldn't dream of playing unguilded. Playing WoW solo isn't an alternative to me. However I doubt that they're going to make Cataclysm super hardcore despite Chiltons statement.
By the way: I must say that your playstyle sounds very fun, dynamic and interesting! I hope you won't feel the urge to move on.

@Jen: well... then we're different. I don't look down on clueless people because I know that there's room for improvement for most players in game. Me included. Would you have looked down on me for running around with frost glyphs on my arcane spec that I admitted a little while ago?

: Hehe, I loved that video. Although switching class isn't exactly as easy as it appears... But who knows? We never thought we'd see faction switches either so...

@Ratshag: Let him take it out on the world! Let him show everyone who's the coolest one!

: Mages = uncool leftovers? *Gasp*
Do you really expect me to keep serving you after such a statement?

Aside from joking, I actually envy hunters for always being in a party of your own, ready to go out and slay some dragons if noone else is up for it.
And when you come back you'll have your reserved seat here at the inn, waiting for you. As always. Cheers!

@Gronthe: Awww. You are literally looking down on gnomes! Shame on you!

@Sven: yeah, I'm mixing it up a bit and maybe it isn't entirely fair of me to do so, I just thought it would make a good post to make a crossover between a couple of posts I had ran into recently.

Larísa said...

@Tesh: That actually sounds like a pretty good scale to me for player ranking.

@Stumps: That has been quite obvious during the years I've spent guilded with you! And yeah, I'm very grateful that I've never had to put up with any "Imbatank" as a guildie. Actually those kind of names tend to be a very strong warning signal as well. Players with these kind of names tend to be not only rude and unpleasant to be around, but also selfish and plain bad. It's a very good tool for sorting out the ones you don't want in your guild. A simple name rule will weed out the worst.

And yeah... mr Gogogo. I'd happily approve of any torture method you could come up with.

@Len: My attitude to players who take the game "too seriously" is rather wonder or possibly pity, but never contempt. I don't look down on them and I can't see what's so bad about investing yourself a lot into the game if your life circumstances are such that your real life is shitty and you currently don't want to/can do much about it. If anything they might need some help to wake up and get a distance. But looking down on them... nah... I try to refrain from that.

About warlocks... shhh... if you wan't to bash them, at least do it with discretion. My pub is open for all classes and factions. I'm trying to build up a reputation of being the equivalence to Switzerland in a WoW context.

Anonymous said...

Alright! Shaman!

My main is a shaman. While I never thought of anyone or any class as being particularly cool, I do admit to looking down on some.

I have a tendancy to look down on people who have a "good" gearscore, but don't remotely live up to their potential.

I also look down on Warsong-US. For whatever reason, I can almost always count on someone from that server to fail terribly at their chosen role. (Too many bad experiences.)

River said...

Cool to me is someone who does their job, and does it while not being to serious about themselves.

Cool to me is an enemy that puts up a fight, and makes things interesting.

Cool to me is people who respect me, and what I do.

Rhii said...

@Larisa My boyfriend just had the DFO ninja'd from his boomkin in a 25 man pug two days ago. He rolled an 83 in a MS over OS loot system, and the loot master who was a resto shaman and didn't roll looted it to himself anyway. Blizzard did not intervene despite screenshots of the loot rules, rolls, and loot master's actions because "in a master looter situation, rolls are simply for the convenience of the loot master and may not be followed." So I'm pretty fired up about ninjas at the moment.

And oddly enough, I've seen a lot of corpse campers lately too. I'm grinding some old world and outland reps right now, and it's amazing how many 80s sit in places like Garadar just harassing the lowbies. I drive them off when I can, but it often ends with my non-pvp geared corpse being camped right along with them.

Bristal said...

Cool or not, I think the importance of there being some kind of "elite" or "pro" player level is important to the success of the game, and on Blizzard's continued emphasis on balance.

Balancing classes is very expensive and time consuming.

Without that competitive element of world first kills and highest ranked PvPers, though, why would they bother?

That "coolness" factor typically trickles down from the truly competitive ranks, but ironically, they care little about coolness.

Pangoria Fallstar said...

Oh Larisa, If I had kept my WoW posts you'd see some advice about totems.

When I play a Shaman, I use every button on the bars, including the special totem bar. I have keybindings on 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,0, Those 10 with shift held down, 1-5 with ctrl held down, R, T, Z, F, G, those 5 with shift held down, middle mouse button, shift+middle mouse button, shift+ctrl+middle mouse button, shift+spacebar, alt+spacebar, and ctrl+z.

So maybe I'm "special" with how I played my shaman, but it was awesome and full of fun! (the totem bar saved me some spell slots too, I had 4 of those buttons as macros!)

Shamans are a different kind of swiss army knife than the feeling you get with druids. I hated playing a druid.

As a shaman, I can easily switch to a healing role, without having to switch anything other than my target. I don't know what else to say.

Perdissa said...

Runningboar's comment about loremaster being uncool resonated with me. I have that title, and always felt it was a bit pretentious; but could never bear to use it again after I heard one guildy call it lolmaster. (because deep down, I agreed)

This reminds me that there are certain titles I tend to associate with poor players. I don't go out to discriminate against them, but somehow players using these titles tend to be not as proficient in their classes:

1. the Explorer
2. any holiday/ festival title
3. Jenkins

Jen said...

@Larisa: I probably would've laughed, yeah. Depending on how you played and talked, I'd assume it was an oversight or lack of reading skills. I managed a worse one than you, though. One day I decided that damn it, my paladin is main spec prot, so the prot spec should be first. I went to the trainer, unlearned both my specs, switched them around... realized my bars don't automatically switch too, redid them... Then a week later I realized glyphs don't automagically change either, so my prot spec had holy glyphs and the other way around. I bought them all again, started changing them, did my holy spec, then started doing my prot spec... *without* respeccing first. So I replaced my newly-added holy glyphs with the wrong prot glyphs. Again. Smart Jen is smart.

That being said, I don't ever look at specs and glyphs. Those for me are 'advanced' knowledge and I don't know shit about other classes beside the basic stuff ("don't put 0/0/71"). But knowing that as a DK you don't need spellpower? Basic stuff. Especially when all the group is telling you that and you choose to ignore the 'goddamn nubs'.

So maybe it's better to rephrase. I look down on clueless people, but I'll forget in 2 seconds and I won't mention it to them. I get angry at clueless people who think they're brilliant and/or are rude (i.e. warrior with the wrong gems giving advice to another warrior who was doing everything OK). I have a problem with people who don't do their research in a situation that needs it (applying to a progression guild, doing bosses they've never seen before). And I *love* people who get their mistakes pointed out and then rage (an applicant with wrong everything who told us we're losers, he wouldn't want to be in the guild anyway, we probably live with our mothers etc.)

Sadly, this comic is very much me:

Larísa said...

: You're looking down on players from an entire realm if I understand you right? That's defninitely a new one! Hm... come to think of it: do you think you could rank the realms on a list? Certain realms are moe prestigeous than others?

@River: Cool with me, even though I don't tend to see other players as "enemies" - even not the horde... And yeah, I'm not a PvP:er as you know, I'm a proud carebear!

@Rhii: Ouch, that sucked for your husband.

About corpse camping - I guess the reason why I never see it is that I'm playing on a PvE realm.

@Bristal: In one way I'd give you right. Competitiveness is definitely an essential element to the game. Some players ask for sandboxes and world-exploring experiences but I think it would only keep us hooked to a certain level.

Fallstar: That sounds COMPLICATED. I get rashes just reading about it. But then I'm just a plain spam-a-button-mage. Very uncool compared to the intricate totem juggling I suppose.

: I'm speechless. All this looking down on Loremasters going on. I had no idea.

And what's wrong about seasonal titles? I loved the Merrymaker one so much that it got me started on doing that crap which I wouldn't have otherwise. I use it most of the time over my Kingslayer and a bunch of other titles.

Jenkins however... Yeah. That title gives me shivers. I feel embarrassed on behalf of the carrier.

Jen said...

Re: Jenkins. I think it's a silly title too, but I have an explanation for the amount of Jenkins running around: when you get a title, it will be automatically displayed. If you're < level 80 Jenkins is probably the first title you get and you might end up displaying it unwillingly. (Happened to me on a fresh 80 alt who got The Patient. I don't like the title at all, but it took me days to notice it was showing.)

And fwiw I don't see anything wrong with the Loremaster (or any other title really).

TM said...

To me, the players most likely to be snotty about what other people do in game are people who are insecure about their own interests or success. I have never been treated poorly by highly progressed raiders, which is what I think of when I think of "raiders." To me you can raid in WotLK without really being a Raider. People in 9+/12 Heroic guilds or higher have never been a jerk to me on any of my toons for their playstyle or in-game accomplishments.

People with badge gear and who pug 6/12 ICC sometimes overcompensate for their perceived lack of accomplishment, or their perceived sense of incredible-accomplishment. These are the people I personally have found to be the biggest jerks about what other people do with their time. They're rude to my undergeared alts (sometimes REALLY rude, the way I was treated on my fresh 80 healer made me CRY.) They troll trade about how other people are bad, and then suck up to my main.

People with mediocre arena ratings are much more likely to be dicks in BGs than people with high end accomplishments, like Conquerer titles or Arena masters. People who collect achievements and have, say, 6000 points are ruder about it than people who have It's Over 9000. Again, in my experience.

People with high end accomplishments, whether they be raiding, nerdpoints, pvp, or being a great RPer, recognize how much work and/or skill goes into getting REALLY GOOD at something.

Of course, the vast vast majority of people in wow fall somewhere in the middle. There are a lot more people who have badge gear & a Jenkins title than there are Light of Dawns and Death Demises or Gladiators or The Insanes out there. And most of them are perfectly nice people. So it's possibly a sampling error.

Personally, I only look down on people who are jerks, or people who brag and try to get ahead and treat others like crap while lording their not-very-impressive achievements. Which is a subset of jerks ofc.

iapetes said...

i'll admit i have a lower opinion of players who just aren't as good at the game, but its not really a raider/non-raider thing, and i would only outwardly express my opinion to those people if they have a nasty attitude to boot.

John said...

Personally I tend to look down on wannabe raiders. You know the type, The people who come into a progression raid unprepared with out the proper flasks and pots. The are usually the people who are first to roll on any piece of armor they think they can use (the old phrase hunter weapon comes to mind ) They are also the people who usually have the gear that has stats they don't need or gems and enchants that dong work with their class.

More recently I have begun to resent the people who have a higher raw gear score than I do doing sub par DPS again with the wrong gems and enchants. Now I have not been playing for a while so my gear is slowly getting better, but to see these people who have been to places I have not but don't know how to play the game that really upsets me.