Twenty seconds of "effort" to get two frost emblems, that must be something of a record. If you by "effort" mean standing on the spot, waving my branches, pretending I'm doing something when I'm in fact only waiting.
Twenty seconds is enough time to toss a buff on everyone. Not because it's needed but because I have to click some other button than the open-the-bag-and-loot-button. Just anything! I know, it's a little hang-up of mine, but I have this old-fashioned idea about a connection between effort and award in games.
Twenty seconds and you don't only get emblems, but also about 20 gold and if you're lucky even BoE weapons or a "rare" mount.
I guess I should be dancing with joy at the thought of Brewfest 2010. This is indeed an opportunity "not to be missed" for anyone who who wants to progress their character or gather gold. It's a perfect fit for my resto druid, who needs every frost badge she can lay her greedy hands on. Two pieces of T10, here I come!
So how come that I'm not happy? Why am I not amused?
All I feel is emptiness, bordering to loath. I think I've been cheated on something important. Namely the actual game.
A broken event
Blizzard decided not to bother about upgrading the Brewfest event this year. And so it broke. Completely. You could call it a joke, it's just that it isn't even remotely funny. It's so ridiculously easy to a level 80 character, that it's over before it even started, not a bit more interesting than it would be to loot the gold and items straight from the mail box in the "lottery of the day" where you win every time, just like you do at the cheapest ones in an amusement park for very small kids.
I used to think that the daily dungeons were a bit anonymous, too much of a one-night stand, where even the talkative players won't say much more than "hi" when you start and "bye, thanks" when you finish. But then I hadn't seen Coren Direbrew in the 2010 version! It makes the dungeons appear as social clubs.
In BRD no one says a word - how could you in the span of 20 seconds? Are we even sure that we're actually interacting with real players? For all I know they could as well be computer generated. It doesn't feel a bit like an MMO anymore. It's rather an MSO, if that term even exists? Massively Singleplayer Online game.
The interesting aspect of this is that the change to the seasonal events was done with the best intentions, as an improvement. End of tiresome assembling of groups where you risked that someone already had used up their daily chance to get it. End of waiting for everyone to move their asses to the starting place. Just push a button and BAM you're at the boss. Concentrated coolness, isn't that what they call it? Cut the slack and the dead time!
We asked for it, didn't we?
It's only one thing: it doesn't quite work that way. There are a lot of things that you might think would be "fun" to see in a game, but which actually would leave you unsatisfied and unhappy in the long run.
The fun fallacy
Nils wrote a thoughtful post about this a little while ago, where he talked about it as the "Fun fallacy", and I think that's exactly what we're seeing in the case of the Brewfest misery in BRD.
Sure, it could feel a little bit annoying if you were running down the chain bridge down into the fiery depths and someone (not ME of course ;)) stumbled and fell down and you had to start messing around with resurrections, summons and whatnot. But you have to admit that actually seeing the place gave some atmosphere! For a little while you were once again an adventurer, travelling through the world with a mission to complete.
I think the problem here is the rules. Or the lack of them, just as Nils points out.
Players may complain at them and want to get rid of them for various reasons, but they don't have the entire picture. If you take away too many of them, you risk that you remove the point of the game at the same time. I you could move any piece in chess any way you wanted to, would it still be interesting to play it, to anyone older than 3 years?
A big problem with the Brewfest event is of course that we're so overpowered for it and still keep doing it. Not for the trinkets anymore, but for the frost emblems or for the fluff items. But I also miss the flight that brought you there.
Do you remember that lovely little trip with the Mole Machine from the entrance to the bar? For some reason it always reminded me of the little rocket that Doctor Snuggles used to come flying in. (For non EU readers: this was an animated TV series with a slightly psychedelic setting from the early 80s.)
Now the little journey is gone. BAM and you're in the instance. And I'm not too pleased to be honest. My only comfort is that I finally got the remote myself. I don't care if it's useless now. All that matters to me is that I can build my own flying device, for no other reason than that it makes me smile.
On a finishing note I hope that they will pull themselves together now that they're soon done with Cataclysm, giving Brewfest a necessary renewal next year, if they intend to keep it at all.
Because 2010 it was so bad that I was embarrassed on the behalf of Blizzard. This is not what I consider a game. It's just a click-and-loot-fiest, which is something entirely different.
Twenty seconds is enough time to toss a buff on everyone. Not because it's needed but because I have to click some other button than the open-the-bag-and-loot-button. Just anything! I know, it's a little hang-up of mine, but I have this old-fashioned idea about a connection between effort and award in games.
Twenty seconds and you don't only get emblems, but also about 20 gold and if you're lucky even BoE weapons or a "rare" mount.
I guess I should be dancing with joy at the thought of Brewfest 2010. This is indeed an opportunity "not to be missed" for anyone who who wants to progress their character or gather gold. It's a perfect fit for my resto druid, who needs every frost badge she can lay her greedy hands on. Two pieces of T10, here I come!
So how come that I'm not happy? Why am I not amused?
All I feel is emptiness, bordering to loath. I think I've been cheated on something important. Namely the actual game.
A broken event
Blizzard decided not to bother about upgrading the Brewfest event this year. And so it broke. Completely. You could call it a joke, it's just that it isn't even remotely funny. It's so ridiculously easy to a level 80 character, that it's over before it even started, not a bit more interesting than it would be to loot the gold and items straight from the mail box in the "lottery of the day" where you win every time, just like you do at the cheapest ones in an amusement park for very small kids.
I used to think that the daily dungeons were a bit anonymous, too much of a one-night stand, where even the talkative players won't say much more than "hi" when you start and "bye, thanks" when you finish. But then I hadn't seen Coren Direbrew in the 2010 version! It makes the dungeons appear as social clubs.
In BRD no one says a word - how could you in the span of 20 seconds? Are we even sure that we're actually interacting with real players? For all I know they could as well be computer generated. It doesn't feel a bit like an MMO anymore. It's rather an MSO, if that term even exists? Massively Singleplayer Online game.
The interesting aspect of this is that the change to the seasonal events was done with the best intentions, as an improvement. End of tiresome assembling of groups where you risked that someone already had used up their daily chance to get it. End of waiting for everyone to move their asses to the starting place. Just push a button and BAM you're at the boss. Concentrated coolness, isn't that what they call it? Cut the slack and the dead time!
We asked for it, didn't we?
It's only one thing: it doesn't quite work that way. There are a lot of things that you might think would be "fun" to see in a game, but which actually would leave you unsatisfied and unhappy in the long run.
The fun fallacy
Nils wrote a thoughtful post about this a little while ago, where he talked about it as the "Fun fallacy", and I think that's exactly what we're seeing in the case of the Brewfest misery in BRD.
Sure, it could feel a little bit annoying if you were running down the chain bridge down into the fiery depths and someone (not ME of course ;)) stumbled and fell down and you had to start messing around with resurrections, summons and whatnot. But you have to admit that actually seeing the place gave some atmosphere! For a little while you were once again an adventurer, travelling through the world with a mission to complete.
I think the problem here is the rules. Or the lack of them, just as Nils points out.
Players may complain at them and want to get rid of them for various reasons, but they don't have the entire picture. If you take away too many of them, you risk that you remove the point of the game at the same time. I you could move any piece in chess any way you wanted to, would it still be interesting to play it, to anyone older than 3 years?
A big problem with the Brewfest event is of course that we're so overpowered for it and still keep doing it. Not for the trinkets anymore, but for the frost emblems or for the fluff items. But I also miss the flight that brought you there.
Do you remember that lovely little trip with the Mole Machine from the entrance to the bar? For some reason it always reminded me of the little rocket that Doctor Snuggles used to come flying in. (For non EU readers: this was an animated TV series with a slightly psychedelic setting from the early 80s.)
Now the little journey is gone. BAM and you're in the instance. And I'm not too pleased to be honest. My only comfort is that I finally got the remote myself. I don't care if it's useless now. All that matters to me is that I can build my own flying device, for no other reason than that it makes me smile.
On a finishing note I hope that they will pull themselves together now that they're soon done with Cataclysm, giving Brewfest a necessary renewal next year, if they intend to keep it at all.
Because 2010 it was so bad that I was embarrassed on the behalf of Blizzard. This is not what I consider a game. It's just a click-and-loot-fiest, which is something entirely different.
49 comments:
People wonder why I don't do Heirlooms, and this hits right in the middle of it. That which is not won, is not valued.
Well, i do heirlooms so i can actually start the game. Blizzard have stated time and time again, that the game does not start until you are at level cap.
I like the fact it is stil there, but agree it was way too easy. The problem is that a group of fresh 80s would still struggle, where a team of 5.9kgs can literally just nuke the place.
My alts still have items to get from the boss, and they are badly geared enough, that I have to concentrate.
Better would have been a scaling encounter, or something that required a forced strat.
Make somebody off-tank something using a special buff (Instructor Raz), or make the mobs CC and stun the 2nd threat non healer, make the boss have a trash wave before he is harmable?
I kinda like it, mostly because as an altoholic, I can finally run this place on all of my alts and get a chance at fluff things, instead of doing "rotate the alts in, to give mains more chances for the mount drop"
Personally, I've been having a ton of fun with barrel delivery race. So far, personal record is 16 tokens in one ram, I'm wondering if I can bring it up to 18 or maybe even 20 o_O.
Shannara: "Blizzard have stated time and time again, that the game does not start until you are at level cap."
Then why not just start everybody at level cap? Or do away with it entirely?
There is a LOT of game before level 80 for the people that enjoy content. You could take part in any of the what, 7000 or 8000 odd quests, instances and whatnots before hitting the level cap and running the same heroics over and over followed by ICC every week until your eyes bleed.
As to Brewfest? The whole concept of being ported right to the boss for the event is silly and takes all the potential magic and gameplay out of it.
If the only purpose in the game is for people to click buttons for loot, why does Blizzard not simply put a pole in Ogrimmar that everybody can walk up to once a day and click 500 times for a chance at an Epic? Or a fluff item?
1 / 1000 times it will kill you.
1 / 500 times you get a piece of purple loot.
Easy to program and seems to satisfy the gameplay requirements for Brewfest as well :)
Randomly Larissa, you might find this interesting as well. (Had to pull the quest numbers from somewhere)
http://www.geekologie.com/2010/04/12/wow-chart-full.jpg
I've been doing Coren a lot too, but I always feel slightly dirty at the same time. Whenever people lamented the game's recent gear inflation with statements like "soon Blizzard will just send you two emblems a day in the mail" I thought that was comedic hyperbole - but the current Brewfest mechanics are actually really close to that already. It makes me a little worried about just how much further the developers are willing to go, but I'm hoping that they are just being careless because of the looming Cataclysm and that they'll play a different tune once the expansion is released.
I actually agree.. While I can't complain that my youngling priest completed her T10 thanks to brewfest, seeing the ignored brewfest this year made me see just how much they care about these in-game events.
I'm one of those disgruntled stein collectors. True, these are just really cosmetic things, but they couldn't even bother to update the model for an update this year. And last year's stein is actually being given out, together with last year's FOS.
Overall, the lack of pride Blizzard is showing in this event is simply disgusting. I'll still try to get my kodo, but I believe when WoW finally ends, they give up all development on WOW and starts on their new MMORPG, this is what WoW-hell would look like.
Larisa, you don't need to chase virtual rewards. It's not that they'll be obsolete when Cataclysm hits. It's that they are always obsolete. They'll never give you want to really want, which is fun, challenge, time with friends, a place to relax, or to get excited.
You might like tomorrow's post. It's about the actual game, about where it has been hidden away. Someplace far away from any grind, gearscore, or achievement link.
: A game is what you play. If you decide not to play until the level cap, that's your own problem.
Considering that Brewfest was probably down in the list of things to work on with Cat coming up, I don't mind too much.
I'd just like the opportunity to solo it. That would make the fight much more interesting.
- Can't you just run on in and do it, or did they disable the ability to do so?
: I don't know, I haven't had the time to actually run over to BRD and try. Before the LFD addition, you could run it solo and try to go after a holiday boss --that's how I discovered that you really did need a party to finish off the Love Fool bosses*-- but for some reason I figured that sticking it into LFD would disable that ability. Something about people actually wanting to run the instance stuck in my head, I suppose.
*I figured, "It's Shadowfang Keep; how hard could it be?" Silly me.
- Since I was in the neighborhood, I checked it out.
The mole machine guys at the entrance are no longer there. You can't take the shortcut to the Grim Guzzler.
However, once you get there, Direbrew is hanging out, and can be challenged.
However, only by using the LFD tool do you get a chance at the bag of goodies.
But if you wanna just solo him for bragging rights, have at. :)
Larísa,
I agree with your post wholeheartedly, but... but... are you saying that you miss the good old days? :P
: Indeed. And yet I do it with my druid. Not every day, since I don’t play every day, but if I’m online… 20 secs for two badges… But you are right. Maybe I could as well pass.
: I think you’re mixing it up here. Or are you kind of ironic? To some players the game doesn’t start until level cap, but that certainly isn’t true for everyone and I doubt Blizzard would say something like that.
: Either scaled or something that required you to move in a certain way, push some button, whatever. A Heigan/Mimron alike thing perhaps? Or any of your ideas. Another way could be to completely demotivate high geared lvl 80s from doing it, by removing the badges… Althuogh then there will be less content for them. I don’t know. It’s just that now it’s so pathetic.
@Leah: Hm… I don’t get why you didn’t have a chance to get in on your alts before anyway? Every char had a chance at that point – including the alts.
I haven’t touched any of the Brewfest stuff this year since I got the seasonal meta achievement the year before and I won’t do it on any alt. Oh, I did actually visit the area for this outside Ogrimmar just to see it from the horde side perspective. And it was… ridiculous. Really. It’s not the same without the setting in Don Morogh. I did the very first whipping quest, realized that I really didn’t want to do it. Been there, done that.
But I’m glad someone still enjoys it! Good for you!
@Pascal: Psst… Don’t speak so loud. Someone might hear you. I still have hope that this is just laziness and that they’ll fix it in Cataclysm. Like so much else…
I’ve see that statistics page before and I love that. I wonder though if it isn’t a little outdated. Statistics grow old so quickly. Look for instance at the chart over the MMORPG market. Is that still valid? I hope they’ll come around to update it.
@Shintar: Yeah, that statement is a cliché, but it’s valid in this case. I think it’s carelessness or laziness or a matter of priories, depending on how you put it. But I honesty think it’s a disgrace. They should have done something. The expansion isn’t excuse enough to let things be completely broken.
: I’m not a collector, but I agree, how hard could it have been to update it? And yes, I think you’re heads on in your prediction. This is what WoW will look like when it goes F2P and they give up on development of it in the future.
: Looking forward to read that!
: You got your answer in Grimmtooth's testing. Thanks for that! Solo it hadn’t come to my mind. In my case the biggest challenge in this would be to find my way to the encounter. I don’t enter the labyrinth of BRD on my own voluntarily, not even for bragging rights.
@Oscar: Oh, I guess I’m just displaying the generation gap! Maybe those youngsters who started to play WoW two months ago find this enjoyable and working as intended? ;)
Well, you have a point and you don't. Scaling would be great - but when has Blizzard done this? Can it even be done with current technology? I'm going to assume not.
The alternative would be to buff the boss, which would give ICC geared players 60 more seconds of fun... but which would completely screw over new 80s (yes, they still exist). I think that having a couple of bored lvl 80s is better than having some fresh 80s (the ones who still need the gear) unable to kill the boss. It's just a seasonal and Cataclysm is around the corner, so I completely agree with Blizzard here. (Would've been nice if they'd buffed the rewards though.)
I think you are getting things a little confused. Blizzard say the game is 'balanced around level capped characters' this does not mean the game starts at level cap.
Pre-WotLK less than 5% of players had seen inside end level raid content and even then people were saying the game starts at level cap.
The vocal majority maybe.
I agree with Grimmtooth.
I mean the vocal minority of course, very early and trying to get ready for work :(
I have to admit once I saw how easy he was this year (even to my undergeared mage) he's just a farm mob which I hit once a day on a cycle will all the alts. On the plus side it's a couple of frosties and enough gold in 30 minutes to pay for my raiding repair bill for one night.
Hopefully this slipped between the cracks due to the cata development.
I think this is where Blizzard made a mistake. In past years I have got involved racing rams and doing dailies to get the tokens. This year I have my 'long strange trip' achievement, have done my yearly brew drinking, didn't want the clothes because they are pug ugly. All I wanted was my mounts - I say Hi to a guy by the bank, get ported in a few seconds later (hurrah for being a healer), bubble everyone and wait for my loot.
I am really happy because I got a remote, so can go and party with my own band whenever I want - the http://www.wowwiki.com/The_Artists_Formerly_Known_as_Level_80_Elite_Tauren_Chieftain
play just for me in the bar in BRD.
Five days later I got my second brewfest mount and don't actually need to go back any more. I probably will because it is easy badges, but it's a great shame that the event has come to this for me.
I felt the same with Ahune. I only did him for the pet and will probably only do the headless horseman for the mount chance too.
Thanks for the link :)
Actually, it is amazing that Blizzard does this. I mean, a few years ago I was always telling myself: "Oh no, THAT line they are not going to cross."
And a few months later. BÄM line crosses. Again and again. It could be funny if it wasn't so sad.
Oh, by the way: The first one to mention that all the complains are just nostalgica and the game has been improved by this 'feature', is going to be put on my mental out-of-WoW ignore list ;).
: Well, that sucks. You're forced to go through LFD to get the keg of stuff, which is way overpowered.
Sigh.
Well, since boss didn't change it's good that you can port directly to him via LFD. Imagine having to go to IF (or another place if you're Horde), fly to Thorium point, ride o BRD, walk the chain and get inside the instance... for a mere 20-30s fight. Worth the hassle? For me yes since I have too many alts to "feed", but that would mean also a lot of time wasted travelling, something I really hate since you can't do anything.
As I pointed out somewhere, next season boss is Headless Horseman and I really doubt it will be revamped, so it will become another frostie piñata. Not a ba thing if you're still have in mind to get another T10 piece or you're just saving emblems for the Justice points conversion. I'm not sure how this will influence prices. Items can already be checked in MMO-Champion, but not prices available yet.
Is the Coren Direbrew encounter silly when grouped with emblem-geared characters this time around? Ho, yes.
Was he like this a year ago when many of us were not as geared? Ho, no.
So I completely agree with whoever said that you cannot scale him or you would penalise all non-emblem geared people out there (in case they all end up in the same group).
I also very, very much appreciate not having to trek to the Grim Guzzler to do it. Even if it had been a more challenging fight and lasted a few minutes, I would begrudge the travelling. I wouldn't have minded being dropped off just inside the BRD entrance and then having to use the mole machines - but the trek to get to BRD is tedious and like someone said, there are so many other things I can do with that time.
@Nils so if I like being able to get ported straight to the boss then I don't know what I am talking about and you will just ignore me because I don't agree with you? Interesting way to interact with people.
The non-upgrade of the Stein does seem silly, I can't imagine copying and pasting the item with a different colourcode and updated year would cost that much effort.
I was kicked from a Brewfest group for low GS.
Admittedly, I was in full Brewfest regalia - but really, what does it matter? I thought the least I could do was be festive. 8)
@tufva:
This was more like a joke. :)
I did not expect anybody to actually like this 'feature'. ..
But .. perhaps I should have been more careful with that. Somehow there is always somebody who likes anything; especially about WoW.
Blizzard dares to put a totally unbalanced recycled boss back into the game and a teleport to and back as well. This leads to what Larisa explained and you still think that is good game design?
Or do you agree that it is bad game design and you liked it just because you like to get emblems fast? Even in that case I could think of several dramatic improvements for you ...
Brewfest seemed rushed this year. I'm sure it was due to all the last minute testing of Cataclysm. I appreciate the Coren Direbrew fight for what I believe it was intended; difficult enough for new level 80's to complete with a reward that was fitting at the end. How many of us are only running this to get the ram/kodo mounts?
I'm only running that fight on my newly dinged rogue to get a shanker and a mug, since she already has the trinket from an earlier try. Delgada was happy to bow out after three runs, tugging a reluctant kodo behind her...
@ Larisa.
I have a lot of alts. and I mean a lot. Last year, each group would take up to a half an hour to assemble and its not like Coren died much slower, its just that it took longer to get to him and you killed him 5 times on each character instead of once.
Maybe its because of my priorities and what I want from the game is different from yours. But I like getting my frosties super fast so that I have time left to do other things, instead of being forced to chose either holidays, or the rest of the game :)
I'm that customer that's ruining wow O-O
P.S. I think horde area is better /ducks
@ Nils.
like something you do not enjoy, doesn't constitute liking everything blindly.
some of us like this feature for what it allows us to do, not because we're Blizzards fanboys (or fangirls)
I suspect that people most disappointed with it are the people who enjoy RP aspect of the game even slightly. it IS very unimersive and possible even giving you a mole machine to click on when the group is assembled instead of straight out porting you in would have been an improvement.
I mentioned this in a comment previously, and how disappointing the current Brewfest event is. No new steins, no new rewards or pets, boss is way undertuned. At least Ahune, who was similarly undertuned, both provided a longer encounter and could be done as low as level 75. He was easy last year, and even easier this year (He has the same HP as a non heroic 80 boss; or of certain trash mobs in the heroic ICC 5 mans).
Currently I have been doing the event for the mounts; and maybe a remote. I certainly don’t need Frost Badges, and while the gold is nice, I’m not hurting for that either. The entire thing is absurd. I remember when you had to actually be careful, because he would incapacitate tanks, or whirlwinds would kill melee. Now he dies before he even uses whirlwind. Also, it counts as an instance reset if you do it, and then change to another character. So if I do it on five different characters within an hour, I am not locked out of all instances until that hour has passed (This includes Raids) regardless of which character I am on? That first raid night was fun, when a half dozen people were simply unable to zone in due to having exceeded the number of instances they could run in an hour by doing the event on alts…
Did you see the things on MMO champion for the “Cataclysm” bosses from the pre launch event? They look like they will be the exact same thing, except dropping 251 iLevel items.
Honestly, the best way to actually handle it would be make a “layered” version of the instance. Make it so that there is actually a little trash, a thematic feel, and then the boss itself. Make it so the event takes about 10 minutes total; and have it so the only way to the “layered” version of the instance is through the Holiday event.
@Jen: Scaling isn't the only way to make a boss trickier. You can make it into more about a matter of technique/movements/reactions. Think Heigan dance maybe? The thing is that the way they put together the groups, it's not challenging for anyone. Even if you have an ungeared lvl 80 you're likely to be matched with people that have good gear. At least that's my impression.
: Farm mob indeed. But even if it pays off it doesn't feel right somehow. We've seen bosses before that we've outgeared but nothing along those lines, and in combination with the instant teleport it just gets too much.
: I didn't think about that! Using the teleporter on your own... I'll try that. Unfortunately I've only got it on my alt druid, not on my main. Oh well. Still a few days to go...
But yes, those bosses are definitely only about the loot. Once you have it you won't want to see them again ever. Which is a bit different from other bosses in the game. I would still enjoy a date with Aran in spite of the fact that he doesn't drop anything at all for me.
@Nils: Well... you know where I stand when it comes to excessive nostalgia. But in this case I think we're very much on the same page. It's not about wearing rosy glasses or anything like that. It's about a completely broken part of the game. Mind you, I say PART of it! There's still a lot of awesomeness in WoW. But the Brewfest boss is an abomination.
@Kurnak: It's true that it would be a lot of travel for very little fight. And yet... I think the journey somehow would make it more entertaining. At least it offers some kind of... experience. Impression of something, not just one mechanical loot click. Yes, I'm a little bit weird like that.
@Tufva: If I remember it correctly it was a bit silly last year as well to be honest, although not in the way it is this year. You can make a boss more difficult without scaling him. Or you can scale the reasons to do him. Nerfing the drops so badly that it only applies to low level alts. I don't know. But I think this compromise, having bosses that die if you as much as look at them, while they still drop frost emblems is bad. And I don't think they've put any thought into it, to the consequences. They're just lazy and sloppy or don't care anymore. Which they should. We're still playing Wrath and will keep doing this for months.
: Really? That's just stupid but to be honest I'm not surprised. I think it was a great initiative and if I'd see someone turning up like that I'd salute them for bringing a little bit of entertainment, for caring enough to make that effort. Killing the boss is so silly easy so you don't have to be a full group.
: Well I suppose the emblems are a little tempting for some of our alts. Larisa has both mounts and any emblem she wants. I could run her for the transport thing, but so far I've only done it once or twice with her. It's just... too boring and embarrassing and it makes me feel dirty.
@Leah: It's clearly your fault! But I forgive you. Have another pint.
: Oh, I remembered I'd read that somewhere, I just couldn't remember where....
Yes Ahune is easy too, but it took way more effort at least for my druid. You had to move around a bit and have some kind of strategy for the adds. I think I even wiped on it!
I don't read MMO champion too closely about Cataclysm and upcoming events to be honest. I still have the silly idea that I want to see things with eyes that are if not fresh, at least not all jaded. I hope they'll be a little bit harder than Brewfest, but who knows?
I think 10 min would be a good mark for Blizzard to aim for, maybe even 15 min. It's still short enough to be that little "extra" piece of entertainment, not something you need to really plan around to get into your schedule.
About the question:
"Why would running around for 10 minutes be more fun than just doing the 'fun' thing directly?"
I think the answer is a special case of fun fallacy: Pleasant anticipation.
In a reward-driven game like WoW, the most fun you have from anticipating future rewards.
Actually having an epic char is a lot less fun than the act of building that char. In German there is a word for it: Vorfreude.
Many times the queue pops up and tells me my group is ready. I finish posting a few more items on the auction house and enter the keg room only to see the holiday bag rewarded to me before the mobs even finish rendering as the others went straight in and nuke him down to near death before I even enter. Um ok, 2 Frost badges for not even making a single move.
I wonder sometimes if we should expect to keep finding all of these things fun every year. I still quite enjoy riding my ram around Ogrimmar, dunno why but I don't seem to get sick of that.
And my sisters love coren direbrew. They don't care that it's easy, they're just so happy to be able to dive in and do stuff without anyone caring if their characters are undergeared or not minmaxed.
I guarantee you that if Blizzard is checking how popular the festival is by the number of people queueing for direbrew, they'll find it very successful indeed.
I think Spinks has some good points.
I got me a ram back in the first Brewfest, and riding him around is still fun. I evens take him ta Ironforge from time ta time....
I has a young friend what only gets ta go ta Azeroth when she visits me on alternate weekends. Schedule like that, she ain't never gonna be no raider, even though she gots the potentials. Just gettin' ta 80 were a big deal. Fer her, beatin' up on old Coren and gettin' some frosties (and a ram!) were mad crazy funs, even if it did only last 30 seconds. If'n it'd been tuned fer buggers like me, well, she might not've gotten ta do the deed. Me, I's happiers this way.
Blizz looks ta be workin' ta add a new boss every year, and re-tune the old ones every other. Long as they keeps more-or-less ta this pace, I figger it'll be good enough fer me, even if'n they does gets stale after a bit.
"some of us like this feature for what it allows us to do, not because we're Blizzards fanboys (or fangirls)"
@leah:
So, could they have put a totem pole outside Ogrimmar you could have clicked once a day to get a pair of Frosties and a chance at a fluff item?
Would that have satisfied your gameplay requirements?
I'll admit to being a bit saddened that people are only after the loot and not after any real gameplay. It's a sad inditement of the current MMO marketplace.
Larisa - even though you have the remote on your alt you can still do it on your main. Invite a friend to party with you on your druid and make them lead. Then logoff the druid and have friend invite you on main. Pop back over to druid and use remote. Get back on main and they will be able to use the thingy to port. I did this the other day as I wanted to solo Coren- worked like a charm.
Good news is that you can use your remote to start up the band whenever you want in the bar in BRD. The band plays for more than 20 seconds...
I'd probably feel the same way, but... considering it's the end of the expansion, I don't really think it's a big deal. It's nice to get those quick, extra frost badges for whatever gear is left you may need!
Blizz probably feels the same way, which is probably why they let it happen like this.
@ Pascal - way to misunderstand what I was saying, kudos to you, sir.
Personally, I don't wish to spend the same amount of time on a seasonal boss that I do on heroic, let along - a raid. I don't want to have to chose between participating in event or participating in activities that I enjoy otherwise.
I like my holidays to be short and sweet, there's already too much of a grind (in other words, you really cannot miss a single day or daily, if you want to collect all the cutesy stuff) to get enough tokens for fun silly vendor things and not all of us got them in prior years.
Yes, I really do play for certain stuff. I know, the horror. How dear this collector participate in your game? How can I actually like the pixels as much as the process of acquiring said pixels? how can i possibly want to pay differently then you, consider different things to be fun?
Incidentally, I finally managed to get my barrel racing count to 9 barrels, falling few seconds short of the 10th...but I think I can manage before the holiday is over.
@Cold: Slacker! ;)
: But do your sisters enjoy that it takes 20 (or fewer, 18 sec last night)? I don’t mind activities that not super-geared chars can participate in but that boss fight is broken imho.
Successful measured by participants, sure. As I said it’s a crazy income of gold and badges/hour. But successful in the terms of actual meaningful longlasting enjoyment of the game?
In this case it’s definitely only about the loot.
@Ratshag: I’m glad your friend enjoyed it, but wouldn’t she have enjoyed it even more if it took 10 minutes and included an awesome ride in the dwarf rocket?
@Bodoth: OK, thanks for the idea! My resto druid can’t solo Coren I think, but it could be interesting to see if my mage can.
@Inno: I need to do more BRD. Sounds like some fun.
: It’s been ”the end” for quite a while now and the latest gossip is that we’ll have to wait until mid december for Cata. Imho it’s a damned long “end time” and I think Blizzard made it easy for themselves going on such an early break.
@Leah: It's curious to me. You say:
"Personally, I don't wish to spend the same amount of time on a seasonal boss that I do on heroic, let along - a raid."
My question is why? Should a seasonal boss not be the same quality and depth of content that a normal heroic or raid would be anyway so that there is no difference between what you would normally do and what you are doing for the holiday?
With, of course, the added bonus of a bit of holiday flavour in the game.
Otherwise it is just a loot pin ... pinja. Pina... I don't know how to spell that. A loot paper donkey thing that gets hit with big sticks for a very short while and ends up on AFV.
Escapist touches on game design and philosophy. It's an interesting read, Pink Pigtailers.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/issues/issue_273/8159-The-Philosophy-of-Game-Design-part-1
@Pascal:
"Should a seasonal boss not be the same quality and depth of content that a normal heroic or raid would be anyway so that there is no difference between what you would normally do and what you are doing for the holiday?
With, of course, the added bonus of a bit of holiday flavour in the game."
It's a Holiday for crap sakes. How would you like it if I told you to go back to work on a Holiday, cuz after all, your office is all decorated pretty with Holiday warmth and cheer.
Time off. Time to do other things. Give me my Frosties and let me do something else (like drink BEER!).
@ Pascal - because in real life I don't invest that much into holidays either. they are yearly events that change up my days somewhat but I'm far too old and grumpy to go for super involved celebrations that require me to rearrange my schedule for a week and pretty much set everything else aside. actually nvm that - even my wedding was a quiet simple affair.
to me holidays are very similar to going to the movies vs going away on a cruise. its a slight enjoyable change of pace.
you know, its funny - people don't complain about harvest festival, even though the entire one week event consists of a single quest and a table full of food that works exactly the same way as the food you buy from a regular vendor. Now here's an underwhelming holiday.
Brewfest? still plenty to do there.
"It's a Holiday for crap sakes. How would you like it if I told you to go back to work on a Holiday"
@Bristal: Odd, I thought this was a game. The concept that we're in it only for Frosties never occured to me. Well, not seriously anyway.
Personally I would rather play content that engages me and challenges me. But, I'm a gamer from the Contra / R-Type, etc. days.
:shrug:
"Give me my Frosties and let me do something else"
Why have the Holiday boss then? Why have any content?
Can't they just send you two Frosties in the mail every day?
Something changed ... I ran in there last night on my shadow priest and Direbrew is not there any more. Not if you go in the front door, not if you use the remote. The only way to get to him now is via /LFD.
Sorry for any confusion.
I think it's a pretty sure bet that this event was neglected this year because Cataclysm is coming out soon and they just didn't want to take developers time to work on it. Blizzard said, "There may be nothing new for characters who have achieved everything in the previous year, but let's not generalize for the entire player base."
So they decided to take a year off of updating the event while they were devoting all their resources to testing Cataclysm. It will be interesting to see how much fun we have with the holiday boss dungeon finder when we actually have to pay attention to that boss' mechanics.
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